mikesilb...EII or a different type?

[mikesilb]

Hi everyone,

(This thread was copied-and-pasted to this thread since it seems to be more in line with this particular topic).

Given that I am quite new to Socionics (even though I am more familiar with the Myers Briggs and Enneagram), I would like to do whatever I can to confirm my type. So I am certainly open to being typed (as long as it does not intentionally try to discredit my own intuitive impressions).

Overall, I clearly know that in terms of my MBTI type, INFP definitely feels right. More importantly, I completely feel that my dominant function (obviously introverted) is a judging function. In fact, when I initially started off my interest in the Myers Briggs, I scored as an INFJ (only to realize much later on that this means that my perception function is dominant, which did not feel right to me). I eventually shifted the MB type that I thought I was from INFJ to INFP because as a dominant judging type, switching to a Myers Briggs INFP made more sense to me.

What I really like about Socionics is that the J/P issue is way more in line with Jung's impressions/descriptions of his types in the book 'Psychological Types'. What this likely does to my type is it shifts from INFP to INFj/EII. I can relate very well to the type of values-oriented and empathy/kindness oriented stance that Fi brings. Contrastingly, I feel that at times I have a lot of trouble understanding the mental 'stretchiness' that Ni (with its deep imagination, vision, etc.) is all about. My mind tends to go from topic to topic in more of an external Ne-ish sort of way. So for all these reasons, my initial gut impression is that I am an EII.

I recently took the Socionics Type Assistant and got an INFj score. Please let me know if you would like to see some of the words that I chose in that type indicator.

What would be a good way to go about typing me based on this and other information? Let me know what your thoughts are. Thanks so much!

[RSV3]

Hey Mike. There is definitely the possibility that you are both an INFP and an INFj/EII. I looked at your test results and it seems you test very strongly as an EII, although I'm not sure if that is because (1) you actually are one or (2) because you are unconsciously choosing the answers you know will result in an EII result because that is the type you think you are. So far, I'm leaning towards EII but I don't have much to go on. Have you looked at the difference between beta quadra values and delta quadra values? Additionally, posting a couple pictures of yourself may also be probative.

[mikesilb]

I completely agree with you about this, and we need to discern between the two possibilities that you mentioned. My gut feeling is that I am a natural EII, but I'd rather reconfirm that from scratch, especially now that I am still a Socionics newbie.

I spent quite a bit of time today staring at the various descriptions of the four quadra. (BTW, are the quadra values simply the four functions that are part of the 'ego block' of the four types involved? Or perhaps, is it something more specific?)

I actually think that a big key to determining my top quadra actually lies in my Enneagram type (I am a 6w7). Sixes are all about having some basal level of security. Even if they can be spontaneous for quite a bit of time, they will need that level of security to feel that things are OK. I think that this aspect brings me much more towards Delta than it does Beta. I tend to have a respect for people who know their roots and their deep values and who live authentic lives that honor those elements (which appears to be a Delta theme). As a result, I can see myself fully admiring ESTjs (even though I may not always like/appreciate their overly practical and blunt ways that they typically act towards for the sake of getting everything done). I respect the traditional values that they have and feel like in their own way, they have my best interests at heart. While I tend to live in more of an Fi-based world where I (almost overly) try to be caring, respectful, and sensitive to both my own needs as well as the needs of others, I pretty much get the sense that a deep need for authenticity is the ruling factor for the Delta types.

In contrast, I get the feeling that the Beta quadra is more about bringing high emotionality/drama to a given situation and is also about enhancing one's personal power and ability to get things done in a strategic and efficient way. I honestly think that I am more into respectful consideration of others, and a bit less about more of a theatrical and melodramatic nature. However, I at times can become more goofy, somewhat dramatic, and light-hearted as well (which at this point, I attribute to my potential Ne subtype of EII). But I just don't see myself pouring overly emotional responses which are out of place from the context that I am in. My Six-ness (Enneagram-wise) is more about fitting in with others, even if that is in an inconspicuous way.

I think that what I'll do is comment on some of the quadra themes that are discussed on the socionics.us site.

2. Beta Quadra [top]

extraverted ethics blocked with introverted intuition:
This quadra encourages dramatic self-expression with elements of theatricism and melodrama. They enjoy finding artistic means to express romantic, abstract ideals and feelings.

Sounds almost too artsy and "theatric" for me. Yes, at times I can be that way, but I don't think that this is my Modus Operandi. It feels almost too romanticised for my own style.

extraverted sensing blocked with introverted logic:
Types from the Beta Quadra are drawn to hierarchical structures that increase their personal power. They like to see convictions and beliefs materialized physically in the real world. They are often starkly blunt in their views and like "strong" humor.

While I respect the strategic nature and strong push to 'get-things-done' in these types, I see more of a potentially opportunistic/selfish (push comes to shove) element in there that turns me off, since I feel that a greater need is for each of us to cooperate together and to respect each other's feelings, needs, and desires.

Subdued elements:
The Beta Quadra is especially sensitive to and critical of earthiness, pronounced pragmatism, emotional indifference, and people who analyze their psychology and motives behind their backs.

I can't exactly relate to this statement in general.

Typical Beta quadra group behavior:
Lengthy, theatrical monologues. Loud, hearty laughter. Importance given to group rituals such as those related to food and drink. Displays of great generosity and inclusion, but with the demand of emotional involvement in group. Rowdiness. Generally theatrical atmosphere, but with periodic moments of "dead seriousness."

Seems almost too 'partylike' for my own taste. While I admire the spontaneity from a distance, this doesn't fit in with my preferred way to hang out with others. I can handle this for short periods of time, but after a while this would drain me.

4. Delta Quadra [top]

extraverted logic blocked with introverted sensing:
Types from the Delta Quadra value pragmatism, hard work, beautifully functional items, and earthy humor and enjoy "productive" relationships where people do projects together. They are usually emotionally subdued and like to discuss topics seriously with the intention of implementing their conclusions.

As I mentioned above, I deeply respect people who apply effort and work hard at the things that they take pride in. While I may or may not be as hard working and as pragmatic as many others might be, I still admire people who have the authenticity and discipline to work hard for the things that deeply matter in life.

extraverted intuition blocked with introverted ethics:
Types of this quadra enjoy discussing people, internal motivation, and self-development. They believe in peaceful self-government without coercion and in the inherent potential of each human being for personal fulfillment.

This domain feels second-nature to me. I care about what each individuals' deepest motivations and values happen to be. I try to be respectful of the individuality and subjective nature of each person since I know that no two people have the same style/philosophy of living life. So my main interest is to be cognizant of those elements that are important to each person that I interact with. I also need to be just as respectful to my own wishes and feelings. If I don't do that, it would be so easy to ride on another person's agenda (and I can easily get stepped on or hurt that way if I am not careful). So I need to remain authentic to what matters deeply to me. The bottom line is that this totally fits me.

Subdued elements:
The Delta Quadra doesn't appreciate high ideals or abstractions that don't relate well to real life. They also don't like large institutions or power systems that do not take into consideration the interests of separate individuals.

I enjoy abstractions but perhaps up to a point. I have trouble staying within a fantasy-oriented realm for an excessive amount of time since I need to also feel grounded. However, I love the world of the theoretical and to explore new connections and possibilities that I have not previously imagined. So I definitely feel more at home in an intuitive domain vs. a sensor domain overall, but probably not to the same extent that an intuition-dominant individual might be.

Regarding large institutions/power systems, I certainly don't like it when not everyone's individual concerns/voices are heard. I also don't like the type of 'corporate greed' that permeates in the business world. It is so easy for opportunistic businessmen to step on other people's toes, and I tend not to favor that type of environment. So I definitely agree with the point above.

Typical Delta quadra group behavior:
Discussion of interesting facts about people and places. Enjoy group outdoor activities. "Live and let live" attitude. Engage only in "productive" activities and discussions. Prefer smaller groups. Emotionally subdued; generally serious, but with periodic funny moments.

I definitely like the discussion of fascinating things that have been discovered/observed. I also like a very laid back and respectful atmosphere. Overall, the type of setup here fits relatively well. I will say that I don't always like to discuss merely "productive" topics, and am willing to explore to a greater ability beyond down-to-Earth topics. Nevertheless, I appreciate people who are straightforward and kind towards me, and I think that the above statement is reflective of that.


So in a nutshell, I feel closer to Delta (vs. Beta). I admit that at times, I can go in more of an emotional/dramatic direction (which is more reflective of Beta)...but I just don't think that it is as theatrically dominant as the way that it is described in that paragraph. On the whole, my values and style fits Delta (seemingly) considerably better.

I'm curious what your thoughts are from what I wrote here. Very soon, I will also post a pic of myself, so that we can look at this from a VI perspective as well. Thanks in advance!

[mikesilb]

Finally, here is a pic of myself as well. Hope that this sheds some light on this discussion!

mike-photo1.jpg (25.78 KiB) Viewed 29292 times

[RSV]

Judging by your view of the two quadras, I'd agree with you about fitting better with delta. As to VI (visual identification), your picture wasn't too probative. For me, I find some pictures instantly indicate a specific type where as other pictures are much less useful. That's not to say that I don't think you're an EII just because your picture doesn't automatically make me think EII. Overall, I don't see any reason to doubt that you are, in fact, an EII, but my opinion has been known to change as I get to know someone better. Let me know if you have any more questions.

[RSV3]

Judging by your view of the two quadras, I'd agree with you about fitting better with delta. As to VI (visual identification), your picture wasn't too probative. For me, I find some pictures instantly indicate a specific type where as other pictures are much less useful. That's not to say that I don't think you're an EII just because your picture doesn't automatically make me think EII. Overall, I don't see any reason to doubt that you are, in fact, an EII, but my opinion has been known to change as I get to know someone better. Let me know if you have any more questions.

I'd agree.

[RyeneAstraelis]

Judging by your view of the two quadras, I'd agree with you about fitting better with delta. As to VI (visual identification), your picture wasn't too probative. For me, I find some pictures instantly indicate a specific type where as other pictures are much less useful. That's not to say that I don't think you're an EII just because your picture doesn't automatically make me think EII. Overall, I don't see any reason to doubt that you are, in fact, an EII, but my opinion has been known to change as I get to know someone better. Let me know if you have any more questions.

I'd agree.

I should hope. :p

[mikesilb]

Judging by your view of the two quadras, I'd agree with you about fitting better with delta. As to VI (visual identification), your picture wasn't too probative. For me, I find some pictures instantly indicate a specific type where as other pictures are much less useful. That's not to say that I don't think you're an EII just because your picture doesn't automatically make me think EII. Overall, I don't see any reason to doubt that you are, in fact, an EII, but my opinion has been known to change as I get to know someone better. Let me know if you have any more questions.

Based on the fact that your opinion may or may not change with time, I would like to continue this process in the hopes that we can either solidify my EII determination, or find an alternate type that fits possibly better. I also at some point would like to determine my subtype as well. But I understand that we probably shouldn't go there until the type is firmly established.

Do you have any good suggestions and/or questions that might help towards discriminating between EII and other candidate types? Without becoming extremely autobiographic, I don't have a good sense as to how we can discriminate between the types.

Also, I wonder if it might be a good idea (for both VI and non-VI based type determination) if you wanted me to post a video containing any future answers to subsequent questions. I think that it is easier for me to describe everything by having me speak it out, rather than to type a long response up. Let me know your thoughts on this.

The only other thing that I can do is list the words that relate to me from the 'Socionics Type Assistant' on socionics.com:

Like me: Adoring, Affable, Affectionate, Ambiguous, Benevolent, Benign, Capricious, Cogitative, Cognitive, Conceptual, Constant, Creditworthy, Desirous, Do-not-disturb, Doubtful, Down-to-earth, Dutiful, Ecstatic, Enthusiastic, Helter-skelter, Hesitating, Ideational, Illative, Impassioned, Intellectual, Introvert, Inward, Kind-hearted, Lyrical, Merciful, Never-the-same, Notional, Passionate, Pell-mell, Principled, Reliable, Responsible, Scientific, Shy, Soft-hearted, Sympathetic, Tender-hearted, Thoughtful, Timid, Uncertain, Unswerving, Wavering

NOT Like me: NOT Always-the-same, NOT Avaricious, NOT Boastful, NOT Careless, NOT Cocky, NOT Cold, NOT Commanding, NOT Detached, NOT Dispassionate, NOT Frigid, NOT Grabby, NOT Grasping, NOT Hard-hearted, NOT Hateful, NOT Inventive, NOT Leader, NOT Materialistic, NOT Mawkish, NOT Outspoken, NOT Schmaltzy, NOT Self-important, NOT Shameless, NOT Stolid, NOT Taciturn, NOT Thoughtless, NOT Unapproachable, NOT Uncommunicative, NOT Uncongenial, NOT Undependable, NOT Unemotional, NOT Unenthusiastic, NOT Unimpassioned, NOT Unromantic, NOT Unsympathetic

I have no clue whether this helps, but maybe this might bring up some more ideas as to how we can solidify (or eliminate) EII. Let me know your thoughts about this. Thanks in advance!

[RSV3]

Random question that may or may not be probative of your sociotype: who is your favorite character on Lost and why? Videos are always helpful if you wanted to post one.

[mikesilb]

OK, here is the video that answers this question. (Thanks for your feedback about the technical aspects regarding putting videos on this page).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azLSsgb3n-4

I'm curious what your thoughts are based on this video. Thanks!